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Stonedbeetle
Junior Boarder
Posts:235

Re: Visionaries and plans

#231379 1 year, 2 months ago
To the original poster. I had this exact discussion with a friend of mine in 09. The business side of me looked at the situation, and said . . . if the Grateful Dead corporation can evolve this catalog of music, into a brand, they may be able to extend this beyond the physical lives of the founding members. He vehemently disagreed. But here we are almost 4 years later and I think the ground work has been laid and has taken root. Consider this simple analogy. In 1969, my favorite football team had a cast of characters on it that to this day, remain at the top of my list in terms of who my favorites were. Not one of those guys is with this team, but they are still my favorite team. Many personalities have come and gone, some I liked, some not so much, but I still tune in whenever they are on. If a sports team can create that kind of loyalty among sports fans, with different players every year, perhaps the same possibilities exist for a band, that appeals to persons that share the same ideals as the b(r)and.

I am certainly not suggesting that any band could do this. But this catalogue of music IS that good.

I also find it interesting that its the old guys like Weir with TRI, Furthur with live Streaming, and Neil Young with his commitment to PONO, that are really driving the positive aspects of technology and music. Most folks their age have no interest in technology, and yet here they are, still changing the world.
Bound to cover just a little more ground . . .
Last Edit: 1 year, 2 months ago by Stonedbeetle.
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fourwnds
Senior Boarder
Posts:421

Re: Visionaries and plans

#231824 1 year, 2 months ago
OZA wrote:
Great great post. Yeah, we're in a transitional period and I like where it is going. The torch has been passed, but the bearers are still being supported by Phil and Bobby. I hope Bobby and Phil keep playing for us a hell of a lot longer, but I don't think we'll know what is really happening until they're retired.

JK seems fixed on keeping it going. I truly hope Jeff C is, but he has the genius to go off in any direction, so the decision is his. Is he just playing in a band that he was suitable for, or is this exactly where Jeff wants to be and keep going?
I think one point that has not been addressed too much is the fact that Robert Hunter is getting old too. Some new songs need to be in the mix, and I guess I'm biased, but I can't pick a lyricist I like more than Hunter. He hasn't written too many new songs for Furthur, but the ones he has done are still genius. I'm sure somebody good will come along though.

It's highly unfortunate that jam bands seem to be getting pushed aside for the EDM craze. I can't fucking stand seeing that happen - but I know that the jamming will live on and make its way back into the spotlight.

As Deadheads have always been part of the Grateful Dead, we must acknowledge that each and every one of us has influence over where this is all going. We buy the tickets, we spread the music, we spread the love and show people the light (in the strangest places if they look at it right). How are people going to pick jamming rather than computer-fuck sounds? They need to be shown the music. They need to feel the energy, and realize its much more than crazed dancing on ecstasy to reach an artificial peak.

While I've always been bummed about my young age, I'm proud in that I'm an ambassador of a whole new generation of Deadheads - I'm in a position to see, and help, the music continue. And I am proud to say, with utmost confidence in my abilities, that I will do all that I possibly can to keep the torch lit and the flame high.


I see the music, the players, the creativity, all being there in the future. The improvisational jamming I think will get taken to another level no one has yet experienced or possibly, (fingers crossed) even anticipate. Maybe a "messenger" will be born, or step up, who similar to the way mid to late period Coltrane shook up the jazz world, will change our current way of thinking about everything . Things will change one way or another, it has to otherwise this "GD Music" will become an inbred hollow rootbound representation of itself. A dead end so to speak no pun intended. But, the songwriting teams of Jerry-Hunter, Weir-Barlow I'm not so sure something as vital as these this will be achievable in this post GD musical family world. The words are at the least a third of the recipe of the GD's magic and if one can even dare to assume this is a repeatable model in the torch bearing future sense, who will emerge? I do believe Hunter when he say's someone will write them but I disagree when he say's it will not be him. I do believe in my heart the muse is not done with him setting our minds and hearts ablaze. I have to believe this, for I see no one else remotely qualified.

Community on the other hand, and let's say for arguments sake that it constitutes another third, seems a little iffy to me going forward. Streams and the online experience are very cool, but overall hollow in my experience and not capable of sustaining anything noteworthy. This music did not get created in the vaccum of cyber space. Although this site, et.al. do stand as a model testimony against the disparity of my point in some respects. Still, the creative solution to the financial realities of the current music business model and that of the past I see being created is, at least on my part, rousing a sense of exclusivity that does not bode well toward maintaing a healthy inclusive community of people of all stripes coming together. This might be something else that will evolve satisfactorily. But it might very well be that the collective memory of such times prior to these modern modes by those old enough to remember will be spoken of wistfully is my concern. But this is only the start and I have faith. Of course all this will be moot and forgotton as soon as dates are announced
ZenoMarx
Gold Boarder
Posts:966
PLEASE be quiet when the band is playing. PLEASE.

Re: Visionaries and plans

#231946 1 year, 2 months ago
I little confused by this thread. Are these prayers said aloud? Not rhetorical or snarky. Some sentences beg for a response, but when I go to write something and consider the context, I get lost. Are you talking about the grooming of improvisational music? Or are you talking about the GD catalog living beyond the original members? Maybe both?

I see a lot more forward-thinking and pushing/building new territories with free jazz than I do with jam rock. Phil has been grooming, if that is an accurate term, players since 1999, and Bob has been doing it since the 70s. I don't think Furthur is doing anything new here, and I'm not sure they're doing it any better, either. I find it interesting (and that isn't code for wrong) that such great (both large and wonderful in definition) enthusiasm is confusing milestones or history a bit. It's very cool, but it is obviously also flawed, or maybe rather careless(?).

If this is the future of the GD catalog, my first thoughts are: what's Hornsby doing? what is Herring doing? I don't think Jazz is Dead is still together, are they? What is Molo doing? What is Osbourne doing? etc etc. I'm not so sure I'd want the catalog to live new life on the steady. I don't think I'd want that for any of the musicians. And unfortunately, I think Bob, Bill, Mickey, and Phil are still the ones providing the lexicon, the dictionary if you will, to everyone involved. It's being interpreted through them. Because improvisation is about listening and not playing, my hope is that all these incredibly lucky musicians will take the craft of listening, and beauty of accident, forward in their own music. But I don't think that has anything to do with the GD catalog or giving this particular music new life. Maybe that is what you are all saying, and I wasn't comprehending that part of your sentiments.
You aren't interesting or clever when you write or speak in the lyrics of others. Rather, what are YOUR words?

It's dead and over when close enough is good enough.
Typ0
Junior Boarder
Posts:112

Re: Visionaries and plans

#232915 1 year, 2 months ago
You bring up some very stimulating thought for certain. I will try and highlight where I was coming from with this post. That is not to say it's limited in any way either. Rather, I am thinking out loud about the potential directions they may be trying to head.

I so Gratefully went to Bethel last summer and met a dear friend and family member who was pushing DSO as the future. Then I went and saw only my second Furthur show ever having attended CMAC a couple weeks earlier. Both shows were good but Bethel was completely off the hook musically. And then I started with the couch tour and reading and all of that beautiful stuff. It brought me around to this wonder if Furthur could be the bus that was going to travel into the generations much like my cousin was saying DSO was going to function.

I think we were talking about DSO being the thing that was to survive on the catalog and bring about that fiercely beautiful family energy we enjoy at the live shows. But what is the potential of Furthur right now not to carry on and survive but to transcend the Grateful Dead as an entity beyond what the founding members ever envisioned?

At this point I would suggest that the model of the dead was revolutionary in the industry of electronic music and technology. I have already discussed those points in my original post and will briefly highlight. The GD opened the doors of the studio to create the real experience of the band within the live performance. To support this philosophy they freely shared all of their live music through cultist systems of taping and exchanging. A practice which, with the advent of the internet and the death of the band, has become the holdings at archive.org.

So does Furthur exist as a nice venue for Bob and Phil to play their music in their later years? Why not Ratdog and Phil and Friends? Why not The Dead? The thing that is happening now is the band is evolving musically -- an event that hasn't happened with these guys together since the death of Jerry. Right now the "new guys" are taking over. JC is a magician on the keyboards. Russo is a monster on the drums. And JK is the seed that planted DSO in the first place as something that could carry on the concert tradition and catalog of the GD.

So what would happen if they are able to start faithfully writing new songs? And one of these new members emerges in some way as a new song writer that can write music faithful to the canon of the GD? No, that is not something that is going to happen over night...but lets not forget Phil and Bob are there as the mortar holding up these amazing bricks right now. Finally, this whole idea of Furthur can become an evolving entity in the same way Law and Order was to television. We can roll a new cast of characters but as long as they apply the model the audience is comfortable with and they can hit a creative stride of their own who is to say how long they can survive? Additionally, they can certainly go on hiatus and as long as there is lineage that has been passed from and through the founding members what's to say in a different era and/or technological form they will not be resurrected?

O.K. This is crazy forward thinking ... I know I am a head at heart. Not the most loyal one and not the most educated. Most likely it's just a dream concocted in my little boy head. It's just thinking outside the box as to what the efforts of all the people that were the Grateful Dead might become in the future for our children's children. I see the kids here in the forum we all do. I have a friend who was a huge music fan and never got the GD. A couple years ago I touch base with him and he's stuck on archive.org every day listening to dead shows because he gets it now.

It's more than the Jam movement and improvisation. It's more than people who played with the band or anything isolated within the experience. It's really about the whole package. The relationship between the audience and the members of the band and the soap opera played out through the catalog. I think there is at least a possibility we are seeing a new creative era that will transform the Grateful experience into a dynamic entity like no other for generations to enjoy years to come beyond what is housed at archive.org. From within the band itself they are creating a self sustaining business venture that employs and feeds a great many people that is not dependent on the life of a single artist for it's existence. What could be more important to release the pressure on the boys to play the music than that? It seems to position them to be right where they want to be and in turn puts them a bit above all the rest that came before.









ZenoMarx wrote:
I little confused by this thread. Are these prayers said aloud? Not rhetorical or snarky. Some sentences beg for a response, but when I go to write something and consider the context, I get lost. Are you talking about the grooming of improvisational music? Or are you talking about the GD catalog living beyond the original members? Maybe both?

I see a lot more forward-thinking and pushing/building new territories with free jazz than I do with jam rock. Phil has been grooming, if that is an accurate term, players since 1999, and Bob has been doing it since the 70s. I don't think Furthur is doing anything new here, and I'm not sure they're doing it any better, either. I find it interesting (and that isn't code for wrong) that such great (both large and wonderful in definition) enthusiasm is confusing milestones or history a bit. It's very cool, but it is obviously also flawed, or maybe rather careless(?).

If this is the future of the GD catalog, my first thoughts are: what's Hornsby doing? what is Herring doing? I don't think Jazz is Dead is still together, are they? What is Molo doing? What is Osbourne doing? etc etc. I'm not so sure I'd want the catalog to live new life on the steady. I don't think I'd want that for any of the musicians. And unfortunately, I think Bob, Bill, Mickey, and Phil are still the ones providing the lexicon, the dictionary if you will, to everyone involved. It's being interpreted through them. Because improvisation is about listening and not playing, my hope is that all these incredibly lucky musicians will take the craft of listening, and beauty of accident, forward in their own music. But I don't think that has anything to do with the GD catalog or giving this particular music new life. Maybe that is what you are all saying, and I wasn't comprehending that part of your sentiments.
Last Edit: 1 year, 2 months ago by Typ0.
wlewis
Platinum Boarder
Posts:6472

Re: Visionaries and plans

#232937 1 year, 2 months ago
I AM THE MESSENGER!!
who else is gonna bring you, a broken arrow?
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