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spinneresque108
Junior Boarder
Posts:71

Re: Furthur needs a new FOH guy.

#10673 3 years, 3 months ago
Bigger venues this summer must mean a bigger and better sound system. Right? Woohoo!

)
Andythemusicman
Fresh Boarder
Posts:3

Re: Furthur needs a new FOH guy.

#10682 3 years, 3 months ago
FaceOnMars wrote:
I generally agree that sound has been somewhat lacking at times at some venues.

Not exactly sure why, maybe it had something to do with the steep pitch of the bowl, but the sound at the soundboard @ furthur fest last year was superb IMO! Best I've heard in 16 shows ... although the tradeoff was that it was a little thin at "ground level".


The above statement is so true, I was directly in front of the sound board during the Blues for Allah night and it was crystal clear, full and magical, best I've heard in many, many years. Also the audience was quite, which In my opinion makes hearing a show so enjoyable, I swear you could hear a pin drop.

I attended Best Buy, one night of Radio City and Binghampton. I moved around for all of these. I could barely hear JK's guitar at BB and had a hard time hearing Phil as well. Same goes for RCMH. Bing I was directly behind the sound board and it sounded pretty good. Last year I remember the sound in Amherst, MA being excellent.

Andy
Cornjulio
Junior Boarder
Posts:130

Re: Furthur needs a new FOH guy.

#10688 3 years, 3 months ago
Andythemusicman wrote:
FaceOnMars wrote:
I generally agree that sound has been somewhat lacking at times at some venues.

Not exactly sure why, maybe it had something to do with the steep pitch of the bowl, but the sound at the soundboard @ furthur fest last year was superb IMO! Best I've heard in 16 shows ... although the tradeoff was that it was a little thin at "ground level".


The above statement is so true, I was directly in front of the sound board during the Blues for Allah night and it was crystal clear, full and magical, best I've heard in many, many years. Also the audience was quite, which In my opinion makes hearing a show so enjoyable, I swear you could hear a pin drop.

I attended Best Buy, one night of Radio City and Binghampton. I moved around for all of these. I could barely hear JK's guitar at BB and had a hard time hearing Phil as well. Same goes for RCMH. Bing I was directly behind the sound board and it sounded pretty good. Last year I remember the sound in Amherst, MA being excellent.

Andy


The sound at BB is their house system. I agree with you comments on the sound. I believe the same is true at Radio City. The sound was a bit better at those gigs, but very lacking up front.

Binghamton was a bit better, Phil was barely audible much of the first set, and boom, he's finally where he needs to be set II. While this is audible on the SBD as well, an aware FOH person would be in charge of addressing this to ensure the sound is where it should be. Again, some of the experience depended greatly where you were in the room, and once again the sound is thin up front.Now this may be partially by design to allow the band to hear each other better, but a few more dbs up there will get the crowd up there moving more, and that spreads through the whole arena.

Finally, it's more about the mix then anything else. Support the solos and crescendos, be on top of the changing dynamics in the room from the initial size of the crowd to the temp inside. How is it there is a blast of static coming from a stack for the first set opening night BB, with almost no effort to fix or minimize the impact until halftime? IT might also be nice to boost JC's B3 solos in the mix at the start of the solos, rather than near the end when the life's been sucked out of the momentum of the song. Just listen to any B3 solo on the tour.

To be fair, the sound is still better than many other bands as they do have quality gear on the road. However, your Ferrari isn't going to feel like one if ,you put regular gas in there, and keep it third gear with Cruise Control on. Drive the thing!
Last Edit: 3 years, 3 months ago by Cornjulio.
Cornjulio
Junior Boarder
Posts:130

Re: Furthur needs a new FOH guy.

#10689 3 years, 3 months ago
Charlie Sheen wrote:
not sure if this is the right abbreviation for a Major League Asshole but the shit for brains that started this thread who apparently can't get his point accross without throwin' stones is AMLFA and may his or her Karma flourish to the down side.

you really think that coming on to this board and trashing the sound guy is gonna sway something your way so you alone can have what you think is a premium listening experience ?
it's shit for's like you that "clog the channels" and need to stay away from the scene because "we don't love you."


"Losing!"
Cornjulio
Junior Boarder
Posts:130

Re: Furthur needs a new FOH guy.

#10692 3 years, 3 months ago
kamloops rainbow wrote:
string up the sound guy because the band sucks the life out of the room sometimes......real deadhead like, be cool to brother dereck f.....where are the kind words for his efforts?


Nobody saying string him up, but I think it's safe to say that there are enough folks here that would like to see some more effort here.

There are plenty of moments where the sound seems sucked out of the room, when the band is really playing top form. It's never going to be perfect, but when the sound is wanting, and the FOH mixer is sitting still looking like a 8 year old sucked into iCarly, it's a bit frustrating.
FaceOnMars
Junior Boarder
Posts:274
Listen To The Flower People

Re: Furthur needs a new FOH guy.

#10699 3 years, 3 months ago
Andythemusicman wrote:
FaceOnMars wrote:
I generally agree that sound has been somewhat lacking at times at some venues.

Not exactly sure why, maybe it had something to do with the steep pitch of the bowl, but the sound at the soundboard @ furthur fest last year was superb IMO! Best I've heard in 16 shows ... although the tradeoff was that it was a little thin at "ground level".


The above statement is so true, I was directly in front of the sound board during the Blues for Allah night and it was crystal clear, full and magical, best I've heard in many, many years. Also the audience was quite, which In my opinion makes hearing a show so enjoyable, I swear you could hear a pin drop.

I attended Best Buy, one night of Radio City and Binghampton. I moved around for all of these. I could barely hear JK's guitar at BB and had a hard time hearing Phil as well. Same goes for RCMH. Bing I was directly behind the sound board and it sounded pretty good. Last year I remember the sound in Amherst, MA being excellent.

Andy


Yeah, I was directly behind the sound board @ ff ... literally 2nd row center with tons of space (just a handful of people) & I was just tall enough to peek through. I even thought the sounds was better even up higher on the hill (in many spots) vs. down at floor level. I was thinking that maybe it was just that it was such a magical weekend, that it's a subtle trick of the mind ... but all you have to do is listen to the audience tapes & they rival the sbdz!

Wound up moving back at LA greek last year from like 12 row front side section - toward the center though - to get a fuller sound (and escape the very tight seating) to the first cross row/ailse which had a big board (again just tall enough to mostly hear over it) ... which was better.

I also noticed a distinct difference at Red Rocks on the first "tree pad" (on the wharf rats side - skier's left) at the bottom near the stage as being very very thin vs. the SCI shows earlier in the summer where I hung there almost the entire time for three days. Just couldn't deal for furthur, not enough juice nor was it a good mix. I understand that area can easily slip through the cracks ... but it didn't for cheese! I'm sure there are trade offs in live sound, but I think a first priority is to dole out sufficient volume & fullness of mix to as many possible spots vs. making "the captain's chair" (soundboard) a very narrow sweet spot in terms of coverage.

Otherwise, I don't look it this as an "attack" thread, but rather one of constructive criticism. If it were me running the sound, I'd love to hear these sorts of comments ... even though I'm sure it's a job where you can't please all the people all the time (although hopefully this statement isn't "overused" to justify a narrow scope).
pogue mahone
Junior Boarder
Posts:37

Re: Furthur needs a new FOH guy.

#10754 3 years, 3 months ago
I caught 4 shows last summer (Brooklyn and Mann), and I thought the sound was excellent. None this tour (finances).

Is it the same sound guy on this last tour?

Its hard to believe the boys would keep him on if he can't even "mix white paint". But as I said, I've only heard recordings this tour so i can't comment.
guitargeorge
Junior Boarder
Posts:182
Look at it right!

Re: Furthur needs a new FOH guy.

#10761 3 years, 3 months ago
This is a great and positive thread. jbyerly wrote:
I'd be curious to here how the Fl. shows "sounded"
I thought the Florida shows had some of the best sound of the tour. I don’t see this as an attack on the sound guy. We are asking questions and providing valuable listener feedback to the sound at shows.

I've seen Furthur 40 times and every show since November 2010 tour except 3/25 at RCMH (thanks to NYPD undercover cops). The band has been playing very very well but the sound from venue to venue is inconsistent. I've been curious why the sound is inconsistent. I was really impressed with the sound in Orlando after several shows where it was not quite there.

If the sound is not satisfactory where I am, I move around to check other locations...usually I try to check it right near the sound board. The first thing I listen for is Phil's bass. Sometimes it is loud and clear...sometimes it is not. Sometimes Phil's bass has a sort of subwoofer sound but is missing the high end of the bass tone, and thus the articulation of individual notes. I believe the low notes are less directional then the higher notes. I‘ve played guitar for 37 years and I’m a gear head thanks to the GD.

I thought the Boca show had great sound and I was surprised because it was an outdoor venue. The vocals sounded especially good compared to other venues. For the most part I don’t think volume is an issue…if you want it louder try to get closer to the stacks…it is really loud there. Perhaps the sound of the Boca show was better because it was outside. Perhaps the sound in the smaller venues suffers from too much volume for the room…there is not room for the different instruments to breathe. Just another theory.

One of my gripes is that often I can't hear Bob's guitar very well and for me it is a crucial ingredient to the sound. He was loud and clear in Boca. I believe this was true with the GD as well. I got on the bus in 72. I think Healy was the one responsible for that. I asked him once about the absence of Bob’s guitar in the mix and he blamed it on all the processing equipment Bob ran his guitar through. I do think that because of Bob’s guitar tone emphasizes the high end, he is hard to get right in the mix. I think there is a sweet spot but it is easy for him to be too low in the mix and you don’t want him too loud in the mix or it hurts your ears ( I wonder how Bob’s hearing is and if he hears how trebly his guitar is.)

I noticed (when close enough) that when Phil is not loud and clear enough for me that he appears to be using a light touch with his right hand and I believe he can change the volume a lot just by his touch in picking the string...part of the dynamics of playing...so maybe his level is set to accommodate a wide range of signal from his bass...not sure about that, just a theory. Also, like Phil, Bob’s attack/dynamics cover a wide range, so maybe Bob determines how loud his guitar is.

Sound quality is somewhat subjective as I have had people disagree with my opinion after a show. But the sound boards are not indicative of the room sound. For one show, I heard a taper recording and it sounded just like I remembered. Then I heard a board of the same show and the sound was much improved. I hope the band listens to the taper recordings to get an idea of how it sounds in the room. And the tapers are usually in a place good for sound.

At the Orpheum I was not happy with the sound...and I was expecting the sound in that room to be a challenge as I saw the ABB there in November and thought the sound sucked big time. But the second set of the 3rd show there sounded great. Why did it take that long to get it right?

I don't think I would ever call the sound bad, just not as good as it could be.

For me, when the sound is right, it is amazing. If I'm not amazed by the sound, I know something is wrong. I listen for each instrument and listen for tone and balance. Sometimes they get it right and sometimes they don't. After 46 years and technology I don't understand this.

I wonder how close the stage mix is to the room mix. I wonder how close what the band hears while playing is to what the audience hears. I agree that the sound up real close is lacking.

I love this band and the music and this music deserves the best sound possible.

Thanks for a great tour Furthur!
SHAGGYSAV
Fresh Boarder
Posts:19

Re: Furthur needs a new FOH guy.

#10765 3 years, 3 months ago
the show on 4-2-11 was great i hope your not talkin bout that tour
amazish
Junior Boarder
Posts:29

Re: Furthur needs a new FOH guy.

#10767 3 years, 3 months ago
Even without being at these shows myself, it is obvious you know what you're talking about. Very informative, knowledgeable and refreshingly not negative. You wrote many very true points about sound, playing and dynamics. Great
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