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devtmm
Junior Boarder
Posts:72

Official REcording Methods Dead Shows late 80-90s

#76184 2 years, 12 months ago
Maybe a resident audiophile can shed some light on this.

I was listening to Without A Net last night and was astonished at how awesome the AUDIO quality of the recording was.

Did they use a different recording system starting in the late 80's? Was it the mixing in the studio?

These official releases (without a Net, Dozing at the Knick , Some Dicks Picks) are amazing.

Are there more shows of similar quality out there that have not been released?
Last Edit: 2 years, 12 months ago by devtmm.
spring mountain high
Senior Boarder
Posts:315

Re: Official REcording Methods Dead Shows late 80-90s

#76185 2 years, 12 months ago
i could be off on this, but i seem to recall that shows of that era (80's) were recorded to VHS
ecojaded
Platinum Boarder
Posts:3204
"Why don't you arrest me"

Re: Official REcording Methods Dead Shows late 80-90s

#76210 2 years, 12 months ago
all of the stuff relesed by www.rhino.com/ has been "cleaned up" before release.

Look for "muli-track" recordings, just heard some interview on the satalite radio about the remixining process of the Europe 72 where the talked about some of the audio science guru stuff...........
She tries to live by the golden rule.
Said you treat other people right,
Other people probably treat you cool.
ecojaded
Platinum Boarder
Posts:3204
"Why don't you arrest me"

Re: Official REcording Methods Dead Shows late 80-90s

#76211 2 years, 12 months ago
Maybe a resident audiophile can shed some light on this.

Anyone care to help shed some light on this for us?.......
She tries to live by the golden rule.
Said you treat other people right,
Other people probably treat you cool.
Last Edit: 2 years, 12 months ago by ecojaded.
scar1et_f1re
Platinum Boarder
Posts:4900
R U Kind?

Re: Official REcording Methods Dead Shows late 80-90s

#76219 2 years, 12 months ago
Shoot, Sunday's Tales from the Golden Road talked about this at length and they even mentioned Without a Net. There were two guests and they spoke a lot about overdubbing, Missing tracks on tapes, correcting for the tapes getting old, etc. The two guests were two of the guys who remastered the re-released Europe '72. It was interesting and they played some songs from the original 3 LP set of europe '72 then the remastered versions. The remastered versions actually removed a lot of overdubbing.

The show was too technical for me to even try to answer your question. The hosts were self proclaimed audio geeks.

It does rebroadcast tomorrow night at 1AM Eastern Time. Maybe someone else who heard Tales can answer your question.
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Slewfoot
Junior Boarder
Posts:236

Re: Official REcording Methods Dead Shows late 80-90s

#76269 2 years, 12 months ago
For fall '89 and spring '90, the band hired state of the art remote recording truck, Le' Mobile. Each show was recorded in multitrack. The best selections are what made up 'Without a Net'. These recordings sound so good due to both the way they were recorded and all of the work done afterwards; overdubbing, mixing, mastering, etc.

www.lemobile.com/

As for what you are calling 'official recording methods', Healy started recording digitally on 12/27/82. These recordings were stereo to Beta PCM cassettes (remember the Betamax?) which a select few cutting edge tapers had been using for FOB recordings as well. The Alesis ADAT multi-track recordings started sometime in the later 80's (guessing '87-'88). The ADATS offered the flexibility to produce record label quality, digital recordings that could be tweaked in the studio afterwards. This made it relatively easy for the band to push out hi-quality shows; Dozin at the Knick, DP's, etc.

Recording dates for Without a Net:

"Feel Like A Stranger" recorded at Hampton Coliseum, Hampton, Virginia on October 9, 1989
"Victim or the Crime" recorded at Brendan Byrne Arena, East Rutherford, NJ on October 15, 1989
"Cassidy" recorded at The Spectrum, Philadelphia on October 19, 1989
"Bird Song" recorded at Great Western Forum, Inglewood, California on December 9, 1989
"Let It Grow" recorded at Capital Centre, Landover, Maryland on March 14, 1990
"Walkin' Blues" and "Althea" recorded at Capital Centre on March 15, 1990
"Mississippi Half-Step Uptown Toodleloo" recorded at Copps Coliseum, Hamilton, Ontario on March 21, 1990
"One More Saturday Night" recorded at Knickerbocker Arena, Albany, New York on March 24, 1990
"Looks Like Rain" recorded at Nassau Coliseum, Uniondale, New York on March 28, 1990
"Eyes of the World" recorded at Nassau Coliseum on March 29, 1990
"Help on the Way/Slipknot!/Franklin's Tower" recorded at Nassau Coliseum on March 30, 1990
"China Cat Sunflower/I Know You Rider" and "Dear Mr. Fantasy" recorded at The Omni, Atlanta on April 1, 1990
Last Edit: 2 years, 12 months ago by Slewfoot.
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devtmm
Junior Boarder
Posts:72

Re: Official REcording Methods Dead Shows late 80-90s

#76314 2 years, 12 months ago
Thanks for the info.
lostsailor
Senior Boarder
Posts:552

Re: Official REcording Methods Dead Shows late 80-90s

#76763 2 years, 11 months ago
I got to catch these:

"One More Saturday Night" recorded at Knickerbocker Arena, Albany, New York on March 24, 1990
"Eyes of the World" recorded at Nassau Coliseum on March 29, 1990
"Help on the Way/Slipknot!/Franklin's Tower" recorded at Nassau Coliseum on March 30, 1990

woohooo.

back to topic: a lot of the dick pics are from basic cassette tape masters (they are noted in the liner notes). You can't do anything with those- other than taking out pops and whistles or digi noise. But in multitrack, you can tweak each instrument- like bob getting excited and strumming too hard, etc. With multitracks, each piece of equipment may be on several tracks that you can raise or lower in sound. Drums can be dozens of tracks, each track set for specific drums, one for each, or even a few for ambience. With cassette masters, whomever mixed that night set the master soundboard.

Those multi tracks was a truck back in the day, and expensive to drive to shows. The fact that they had one for the entire europe (or most of?) tour is pretty impressive and they had a huge bill for doing it.

Before a given show, the soundman will play with evverything and mix the sound for each room (they eventually had computer programs that would remember the settings and the room's design for each mixing). If the room casused the soundguy to feel the sound felt a little bass heavy, the soundboard tech will maybe lower the bass sounds a little during the performance, so the room balances out. That lowered bass is what is recorded. On the cassette tape, you don't hear the room that much (if at all) so today we might notice that the recording is bass lite. Nothing you can do with the cassette tape recording.

With multitrack, the techs can go back after the fact and tweak it based on speakers in a soundproofed, specially designed room- like at Bob's new studio, so the sound you get on your speakers is prestine and set up sonically for us.

There are some traders who get very upset with bootleg traders who claim they "remastered" bootlegs. Because you can't really "remaster" a two track cassette tape- all they are doing is making eq adjustments based on THEIR speaker set up, so it's not really a remaster.
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gdedroze
Junior Boarder
Posts:48

Re: Official REcording Methods Dead Shows late 80-90s

#76766 2 years, 11 months ago
I can remember ,just with a boom box on my shoulder, recording shows. always making sure when to turn the cassette over when the tape was done. alot of tape and alot of patience`~`~ great phun
gdedroze
Junior Boarder
Posts:48

Re: Official REcording Methods Dead Shows late 80-90s

#76767 2 years, 11 months ago
seemed like everyone was taping back than. Not unusual to fine a hundred tapers or more at A SHOW
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