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deadontherivet
Expert Boarder
Posts:720

Re: Furthur Needs Crescendos!

#64791 3 years ago
I'm looking at photos from
1994 were Jerry has a cab that is mikes. I don't see an amp head, but I am guessing it is in the effects racks.
I wish I was the headlight on a northbound train.
lostsailor
Senior Boarder
Posts:552

Re: Furthur Needs Crescendos!

#64795 3 years ago
edheadwharfrat wrote:
"They didn't have amps on stage in the later 1990s (none). "

Are you sure about this? Jerry, Bob and Phil stopped using amps on stage? For the life of me, I did not notice this and I saw at least 125 shows in the 90's. I learn something new every day!!


It was when they went to the earpieces, i think. I didn't believe it either, and someone on ratdog.org posted a healy interview where he discusses it- he says if they shut the house speakers off, you'd hear the drums and maybe the bass. I think that explains why they sound so sterile in their soundboards. Guitarists tend to run their sound through an amp, and mic the amp (Garcia certainly did), to give them a fuller sound. Without it... it's sterile sounding, at least for me. An interseting experiment where Healy could really control the minutest details.... but at a cost?
Cub
Senior Boarder
Posts:592

Stagemonitors though the 80's

#64800 3 years ago
The Grateful Dead was the first band to start using on-stage monitors that facing themselves so they could hear what they were playing and singing. When wireless and custom earpieces arrived to replace the bulky monitors , the Grateful Dead were the first band to stop using them. Always cutting edge , leading the pack. Also Dan Healy was responsive to suggestions from the tapers.

The way I remember it was.....
When Mr. Cutler took over on his first east coast tour, the heads were all saying how the overall sound was too low.
So a few shows later a sign was posted on the back of the soundboard for the tapers " It's Loud Enough" .

Well so much for arrogance. That's when I went back to stealth recording up front where it was always plenty loud.

I think the only instrument that cannot be muted remotely is also my favorite. The Hammond B3 organ with 4x4 Leslie speaker cabinets on stage. I just love the B3 and miss Brent so much.
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Cornjulio
Junior Boarder
Posts:130

Re: Stagemonitors though the 80's

#65097 3 years ago
Cub wrote:

The way I remember it was.....
When Mr. Cutler took over on his first east coast tour, the heads were all saying how the overall sound was too low.
So a few shows later a sign was posted on the back of the soundboard for the tapers " It's Loud Enough" .

Well so much for arrogance. That's when I went back to stealth recording up front where it was always plenty loud.

I think the only instrument that cannot be muted remotely is also my favorite. The Hammond B3 organ with 4x4 Leslie speaker cabinets on stage. I just love the B3 and miss Brent so much.


I do think when Cutler took over combined with the lack of stage monitors, the sound lacked punch. There's something about feeling the music that leads to aggressiveness.

Now it seems we get a hybrid system. There are times when the sound directly from the stage with the fill speakers is much more pronounced than the rest of the hall. Moreover the arrays hang over the stage, and it seems the sweet spot for sound, rows 15-25 often are too low in the mix in indoor venues.

I agree if it's what's required the players need to have the ability, desire, freedom...in fact be downright encouraged to turn up their solos. Aren't some of your most anticipatory "here we go" moments at a shows when you hear the guitar volume take a boost before a solo in Loser, Candyman, I Need A Miracle? The irony is, this is really true for Jeff, who's up there playing that B-3! Solos take forever to get going and seem under amped. Now truth be told it seems like Phil spends more time dancing up the middle too, and it often seems a little cluttered in there, rather than Phil thundering in the lows.

That being said, Healy knew how to slightly manipulate the sound, mix and volume on the fly that amplified and drove the sound and crowd. He knew the music and was an extension of the band. The crescendos haven't been the same since. Now we get set incredible music played, with a sterile set it and forget it mix. We could use a lover of dead music as an active participant in the sound production.
Last Edit: 3 years ago by Cornjulio.
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83msg1sttyme
Platinum Boarder
Posts:5732

Re: Stagemonitors though the 80's

#65110 3 years ago
somebody must of heard youcause the viola lee is crecendo city
If i told ya all that went down,it would burn off both your ears
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Chuck_Woolery
Visitor

Re: Stagemonitors though the 80's

#65177 3 years ago
Cornjulio... what you describe makes absolute perfect sense. I've been wondering why their sound is more generic even when they are playing at their most inspired. Also, the Dead would have a different tone each night, haven't really heard that either.

I also loved all the experimental stuff leading up to/out of space.just cuz they don't do space doesn't mean they shouldn't play with the effects a bit more.

It's a bit of a shame, and if Healy was the magic in the mix then they should get him or someone like him at the switch.
GreatestStoryEverTold
Expert Boarder
Posts:777

Re: Stagemonitors though the 80's

#65214 3 years ago
Chuck_Woolery wrote:
Cornjulio... what you describe makes absolute perfect sense. I've been wondering why their sound is more generic even when they are playing at their most inspired. Also, the Dead would have a different tone each night, haven't really heard that either.

I also loved all the experimental stuff leading up to/out of space.just cuz they don't do space doesn't mean they shouldn't play with the effects a bit more.

It's a bit of a shame, and if Healy was the magic in the mix then they should get him or someone like him at the switch.


Check out the Dark Star From Jones Beach this summer.
PeggyO
Fresh Boarder
Posts:15

Re: Furthur Needs Crescendos!

#65306 3 years ago
Corn, I get what you're saying, but I personally don't think it's a problem related to equipment or sound techs. I think it's related to whether or not the musicians in the band can - or cannot - take the music to levels that ebb, flow and peak during any particular song. I just got back from Eugene and I think I must have been listening to a completely different band than the folks on the Show Review threads because for me and the folks I was with, the Eugene run was the weakest effort we've seen yet of Furthur since their beginning shows. I have often said I wish we could get those peaky moments back in Furthur but to me, it's not about how the sound is being channeled or monitored at the SDB, it's more about whether or not the guys can take the music to those mystical places that they used to go to. As much as some folks love JK, I just don't think/feel he has the innate talent and artistry to do that. Jerry did, and I think that's where the peaky cresendo's came from. Even with poor or less than perfect SDB management, you can still hear and more importantly, FEEL those peak moments. If they're not there to begin with, no amount of SDB tweaking will make them exist, if that makes sense. I think one gets those high moments when true creative energy is flowing. When one is creating new and in-the-moment, that's when the trip takes off and you can get those cresendo moments. When one is channeling someone else's trip, it can be done well and with proficiency, but it's not an original creation, as it were. To me, that's where Furthur is lacking right now, and I'm not sure they can get back to those peaky highs, though I will say that Jeff can certainly blast off on 'trip patrol duty' better than just about anyone else in that band right now, though of course YMMV, and when he did in Eugene, it was definitely loud enough and was the sole focus, sound wise, in that moment.
~ Once in awhile you can get shown the light, in the strangest of places if you look at it right ~
otherone78
Junior Boarder
Posts:199
first Furthur show: 2/19/10

Re: Furthur Needs Crescendos!

#65309 3 years ago
Totally disagree about John. There are many awe inspiring moments when he goes off, many fine examples the latest would be last nights Sugaree. John is his own player, Im really surprised that this community cant get passed the Jerry thing. No fair judging John by how we feel about Jerry, the man wrote the book, we all know this. This band is clearly going for a group mind set, making things tight as a single organism, not John trying to be Jimi Hendrix or something, they clearly try to share and with so many great players on one stage, the one man guitar fest just isnt in the cards, nor should it be. So please check out last nights Sugaree and then tell me John cant bring it.
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the highway terror
Platinum Boarder
Posts:7142
{({({({({(Health Vibes For Bobby)})})})})}

Re: Furthur Needs Crescendos!

#65337 3 years ago
I think what you're trying to say is the band doesn't have the dynamics that the dead had.
It would be cool if they could bring Healy back if only for a little while
Can't Live that Negative Way, Make Room for the Positive Day !
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