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23atwell
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Posts:4777
I love what I love and I want it that way

Who do you hear the loudest

#52732 2 years, 11 months ago
Here's my thoughts. When I'm listing to gd I'm always hearing Jerry more than anyone. Sometimes when the song is over all I remember is Jerry. Is his guitar turned up more than everybody else's? Or is just cause I've been such a Jerrys kid my whole life. I mean Jerrys guitar puts me at ease and makes me feel good and his vocals. Does anybody relate. I know there's people that are huge on phil and in the zone, do they feel like I'd do about Jerry.

P.S I love them all just like that but Jerry takes me away
And I'm going to sit right here until I die
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guitargeorge
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Re: Who do you hear the loudest

#52751 2 years, 11 months ago
Jerry was usually pretty loud in the mix and easy to hear. So was Brent. I love Bob's rhythm guitar and often tried to focus on it but often he was hard to hear in the GD.

Now with Furthur I focus first on Phil; love it when he is loud and clear. I am also enjoying Jeff on keyboards more than I enjoyed Keith and Brent with the GD. Sometimes he could be louder in the mix, but usually his solos are clearly heard. I am enjoying the vocals more with Furhtur as well. And I can hear Bob's guitar much better in Furthur.

I'm a little different than most of the heads who saw the GD a lot and centered on Jerry. I love Jerry when he is energetic and saw plenty of shows where he was not. For me, what amazed me the most at Grateful Dead shows was the whole rhythm section, massively powerfull. I thought of Jerry as the surfer on that tital wave of rhythm.
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23atwell
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Posts:4777
I love what I love and I want it that way

Re: Who do you hear the loudest

#52775 2 years, 11 months ago
guitargeorge wrote:
Jerry was usually pretty loud in the mix and easy to hear. So was Brent. I love Bob's rhythm guitar and often tried to focus on it but often he was hard to hear in the GD.

Now with Furthur I focus first on Phil; love it when he is loud and clear. I am also enjoying Jeff on keyboards more than I enjoyed Keith and Brent with the GD. Sometimes he could be louder in the mix, but usually his solos are clearly heard. I am enjoying the vocals more with Furhtur as well. And I can hear Bob's guitar much better in Furthur.

I'm a little different than most of the heads who saw the GD a lot and centered on Jerry. I love Jerry when he is energetic and saw plenty of shows where he was not. For me, what amazed me the most at Grateful Dead shows was the whole rhythm section, massively powerfull. I thought of Jerry as the surfer on that tital wave of rhythm.


Your tatally right about bobby and further. Cause I can hear Bobby way louder. It was hard sometimes to hear Bobby with gd but know with further, it's loud and clear, very electrifying. John doesn't seemed to be turned up liked Jerry was.
And I'm going to sit right here until I die
wlewis
Platinum Boarder
Posts:6472

Re: Who do you hear the loudest

#52777 2 years, 11 months ago
george as i read that i had flashbacks to sitting in those blue light cheap hotels listening to you talk about weir's volume-hahaha!!!


i first and foremost listen for phil but what i hear first is not always the same...depends on the mix and the venues acoustics, as well as how the sound guys rigged it, they never seem to do things the same 2 nights in a row
who else is gonna bring you, a broken arrow?
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killwhyT
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Posts:479

Re: Who do you hear the loudest

#52793 2 years, 11 months ago
yeah Jerry was always hot in the mix at GD shows and on soundboards, live albums etc but it also has to do with the frequency of his solos, they always really cut through. George I really like Jeff a lot, more each show but I wouldn't put him above Brent, because I loved Brent's singing, but on piano Jeff is king fo sho. At the Furthur shows I noticed Bob is a lot louder than he ever was in the past, and I like being close enough to see what he is doing on guitar. I noticed this summer that Sunshine seemed up in the mix a lot more than ever before and i applaud that!
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MushroomMan
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Posts:8137

Re: Who do you hear the loudest

#52795 2 years, 11 months ago
I try to listen to everything at shows but I find myself focussing a lot on Bob's unique guitar playing, which like mentioned already is nice and loud in Furthur. John's guitar could usually use a little more volume IMO. When I listen to Grateful Dead shows its usually a lot harder to hear Bob's guitar....
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guitargeorge
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Posts:182
Look at it right!

Re: Who do you hear the loudest

#52968 2 years, 11 months ago
OK, here is another long post. Sorry, but I can’t help it.

I know these days with internet communication that people don’t have the attention span for longer posts and most of us communicate quickly with one or two sentences…but sometimes I got to lay it out even if people find it too long to read. For those that take the time, thanks for reading.

23atwell, True that JK is not as loud in the mix as Jerry, but most of the time I hear him well enough. Jerry had a very loud stage volume…I mean blistering loud…not sure how his ears took it all those years. Even if you stood behind his equipment it was extremely loud because the JBLs were in an open back cabinet and he was pumping a lot of wattage through those speakers.

I have to agree with killwhyT about Jerry’s tone. He really cut through the mix not just because of volume but because of his tonal frequency. It’s like his tone was equalized to cut out most of the low end, emphasizing brightness, usually without being harsh. This way there was less overlap in frequencies of other instruments.

I love what JK is doing with Furthur and have a lot of respect for the man. I do wish he would adjust his tone a little to thin it out a little…mainly less low end in his tone. JKs tone is fatter…sort of a full range frequency. The problem as I see it is that it interferes or overlaps other instruments too much, and does not cut through as well as it could. Also, with a fatter tone, if he gets too loud it really crowds/dominates the other instruments. Like it takes up too much of the tonal frequency. It could simply be a matter of turning the bass down on his amp. Jerry ran the bass tone on his Fender Twin preamp at zero and considered the mid tone knob to be the bass tone. This is from another tone master, Steve Kimock.

I’ve always loved Bob’s rhythm playing but now I don’t always like his tone. The super thin high end and some kind of effect that I can’t identify…anyway it is sort of like Bob is occupying the tonal frequency where Jerry used to live, but not Jerry’s tone at all.

It is a little strange because before they start playing and the band is fiddling around, tuning and testing…Bob’s guitar sounds great…I mean the tone seems much more full…but once they are playing at volume mostly what I hear is the high end…the full tone is probably there but buried among the other instruments.

Another speculation is I wonder about Bob’s hearing. He said he lost a lot of hearing in one ear way back at Monterey Pop…I believe it was jamming with Hendrix. Then you add all those years of high stage volume, especially being in front of Garcia’s rig. It could be that Bob has lost a lot of his high frequency hearing and his guitar does not sound so bright to his ears.

I imagine it is a real art to mix those guys and add in the subjective factor of ear and taste…I’m sure they can’t please everyone. I imagine each of us would mix it a little different if we were doing the mixing.

killwhyT, regarding Brent, I grew up with Keith on the keyboards (never saw them with Pigpen). I wasn’t a huge Keith fan and I think a lot of his stuff was too subtle for me to appreciate, but Brent was a huge change and I never quite warmed up to him…it’s like the Grateful Dead really was a different band with Brent. I liked his organ playing but I never really liked his singing or his songs. His voice sort of grated on me. I think his pain and depression came through in his voice and I did not like to hear it…sort of like Kurt Cobain…his voice brought me down…simply depressing. There was a lot of pain in Jerry’s voice as well but somehow this pain I could relate to.

It also bothered me that Brent was loud and clear in the mix at the expense of losing some/all of Bob and Phil’s sound. I know Jerry really enjoyed playing with Brent and the musical relationship they had. I know I’m in the minority here but we all have different tastes. I never really liked Donna’s singing either.

I’m seeing a similar musical relationship develop between Jeff and JK. I think Furthur is giving more room for keyboard solos (longer solos and more often) than the Grateful Dead did. If I had not heard Furthur I would not like the idea that they were giving more musical space to the keyboards. I thought of the Dead as a guitars/bass/drums kind of band. I didn’t want to listen to keyboards! I wanted to hear Garcia, Weir, and Lesh Bombs!

But now I am really enjoying the keyboards more than ever. And the band seems to be enjoying them as well given how much musical space they give Jeff. And really, when I watch the band, Jeff seems really into it by his body language…almost more than anyone else. I also really love the jazz element he ads to songs and jams.

Could be that my ear has changed over the years and that is the main reason why I can appreciate the keyboards more now. One of the most important factors in the music to me is energy…high energy…and to my ear Jeff brings it!

Hey Burt, we did two tours, 39 shows, together (and soon to add 13 more!). How lucky are we! Man I hope you have a blast playing in your new band, Workingman’s Dead! Be generous with the bombs!
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23atwell
Platinum Boarder
Posts:4777
I love what I love and I want it that way

Re: Who do you hear the loudest

#52991 2 years, 11 months ago
Guitargeorge, thank for some much for the insight. This is why I love this site. Sometimes i feel like I know slot and which I do but not ever playing a instrument I don't get some things musically. I do know when the band is on or off though and my body does also, I can feel it.

I only got to see Vince on keys and I can tell a huge difference from Brent. If I'm going to listen to something on my iPod inusually pick something with Brent. Although I always skip Brent songs I love him on keys. I think jeff fits great with further. The times I have seen further I didn't get much solo parts for jeff.

I understand and can hear what you mean about JK tone.

I like the extended long post, I appreciate it. See ya in monteray
And I'm going to sit right here until I die
The following user(s) said Thank You: guitargeorge
ddsstyle
Visitor

Re: Who do you hear the loudest

#53034 2 years, 11 months ago
23atwell wrote:
Guitargeorge, thank for some much for the insight. This is why I love this site. Sometimes i feel like I know slot and which I do but not ever playing a instrument I don't get some things musically. I do know when the band is on or off though and my body does also, I can feel it.

I only got to see Vince on keys and I can tell a huge difference from Brent. If I'm going to listen to something on my iPod inusually pick something with Brent. Although I always skip Brent songs I love him on keys. I think jeff fits great with further. The times I have seen further I didn't get much solo parts for jeff.

I understand and can hear what you mean about JK tone.

I like the extended long post, I appreciate it. See ya in monteray


I love that you guys are talking about they keys! Listening to Furthur, my ears instantly tune to what jeff is playing. I love how his baby grand sounds. Its tough to explain his style for me, but it comes across as soft, but fast. Very melodic and very in tune with the rest of the group. Listening to Keith I dont get those same feelings. It feels like he comes in late a lot of the time but I still dig him. I really enjoy brent on the organ and I think the chemistry of 80's dead with brent is it is actually my favorite era of dead. Its a bit haunting to me. Not a fan of vince's voice but he plays sharp!! There is a version of the music never stopped from vegas in 1994 featuring an insane jam by vince that is among my all time favorites.

Looking over this, it can really be hard for me to describe some of the feelings that I get when certain keyboard jams come on but that is what my ears are really tuned in for!
strangerinboulder
Platinum Boarder
Posts:1635

Re: Who do you hear the loudest

#53232 2 years, 11 months ago
The voices in my head.
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