i think it's funny you guys got bummed about the phish comment. truth hurts yo!

I appreciate your input Burt, it helps to have someone bring things like that up.

In all fairness I dont think its as bad as Phish.

But I don't go to Phish shows either.

Anyone else have an opinion?

Which scene is worse?

wlewis wrote:



all good points, there certainly are 2 sides to the scene and everything you mentioned is a shame....

all the good people I meet and the positive energy, vibes and experiences they help bring makes it worth dealing with all the negative stuff, to me anyway.

There's no perfect world and no part of it, the bad will always come with the good

They say turn the bright lights on
And there you'll find the truth
Here, open up this book
And now you'll find the proof
It feels like a can of worms
Keep the lid on tight, and they say

Don't let it get too bright
Don't let it get too bright
Don't let it get too bright
No, not this time

They tell me it takes sorrow, boy
To help you feel the joy
They say it takes poverty
To let you love a toy
Now you can't have the good
Until you've shared the bad

Don't let it get too sad
Don't let it get too sad
Don't let it get too sad
No, not this time, time

They say it takes hardship, boy
To let you love the rest
Sometimes underneath the load
Is where I show my best
Go, put your work clothes on
Go and leave your mark
And they say

Don't let it get too dark
Don't let it get too dark
Don't let it get too dark
No, not this time

----John Bell

Ossumpei wrote:


well i've only seen phish live once but I would say their scene is much more comparable to bands like string cheese, widespread panic, and other newer(in a sense) jambands. That being said there are plenty of people at furthur shows that are there to party and not for the music, as at any popular music concert. Its hard to guess what you will get at furthur, ive met some amazing people of all ages at shows that made the show experience more pleasant and ive seen people almost fight, pass out on drugs, and a great many other annoying, stupid and disrespectful things. I will say that I think the furthur scene is much calmer than say the 09 dead scene; there's just a lighter degree of wookieness among the crowd seemingly (and the crowd is older too, and way older than a phish crowd). there's less nitrous, less people slinging (obviously these things still happen plenty though). the furthur scene to me just seems much more tranquil than any other similar music scene on the whole.

heads tend to romanticize the scene some cause they love it and in some ways feel that shitting on it is shitting on them somehow (people do this for everything, group associations and us and them groups with cooperation between us and aggression to them are strong evolutionary traits which developed synergistically ). but you shouldnt paint to rosy a picture theres no doubt that alot of what is going on at shows is not very special or magical(drunkeness, excessive drug use, litter in lot, massive profiteering by all involved vendors/venue/drug dealers/the band), in fact some of it is overly self indulgent and selfish or a blatant lack of concern for general ethics. the magic of the music and the good vibes of the scene cant blot out the cultural forces which shape all of us. overconsumption and self indulgence mark every facet of are society, and most people dont even realize they are doing it. but for all the shadowy and dark aspects I think we continue to go to shows and love them because the music and fleeting moments of powerful collective positive energy gathered around that music are amazing and unique.

i am well aware there are two sides to everything.

i would not have attended as many furthur shows as i did if i wasn't having a good time.

things were just a little different 2 or 3 years ago, and so was i.

edit: also i love you guys, i don't want you to think i'm shitting on you. in fact, for the last several months this place and people have been a big draw for me to hit shows.

TBH, I wasn't bummed by what you were saying either.

I was just trying to stir up some conversation. I feel like different opinions make for better conversation. I like to hear what people have to say, quite often it causes me to think.

Lewis you are mostly correct. It was the whole lot scene that turned me off going to see the Dead in the 90's. My last show was the Bill Graham show at Golden Gate Park. I had the chance to go with some friends to pacific nw shows in 93-95 but chose not to. Partially because I'd meet a group who were going and ask 'what was your last show' and the reply would often be 'never been man but I hear it is a great party'. I love running into old friends at shows and making new ones. I see people I've known for over twenty years, talk to them during a set break and then run into them on the next tour....shoot the shit then adios. The people who go just for the 'scene' are what fucked it up in the first place. It's about the music first and foremost.

In my experience at least, it seems like the scene has been improving greatly since it started in 09. I remember the west coast tour last fall and I really was saying "wow this scene is keeps getting better and cleaner... What a beautiful thing" I also like the fact that I see a lot of older heads who say they will pop some of the nitrous mafia's balloons... They need to get outta our scene.

Also, I wasnt at the Furthur fest, but from what I heard there were a lot of pretty sad events that took place..... Since then I havnt heard of anything like that

Im 19 years of age, I have seen Furthur 7 times. Traveled to redrocks alone by train and it was by far the best decision i made in my life i was able to meet many wonderful people including a bunch of F3 folks. I cant pinpoint exactly what the dead mean to me but i can defiantly say that it brings a needed tribal family vibe to my life. The scene is what it is, of course ive only experienced it for 2-3 yrs now but i see the pros and cons. Its all about the music for me (obviously) its not about getting blown out of my gourd when i see the band. Ive attended shows sober and havent regretted it in the slightest bit. I LOVE this band and find myself most happy when the lights go down and the boys warm up ... pure ecstasy!