I like this thread. Its a good solid debate and nobody is putting each other down. Respecting each other. I like it.

I don't know why you have to have experienced something yourself to raise a discussion about it. To me, that's just gathering opinions and information. Seems like talking about the price elasticity of tickets is a worthy topic, and is a very different thing than complaining about prices. I don't know, maybe this is a male idea of a "civil" discussion, but it seems to be kind of judgmental and snarky to me.

I don't know what my top ticket price for a small venue Furthur show is, probably in the $200-400 range. It's harder when you have to add in travel expenses and consideration of a partner's interests. For just me, I might even go as high as $500 for a one-time treat. I wouldn't go anywhere near that high for other performers, probably. I know it was pretty easy to say no to both the Who and Roger Waters at $150/ticket even at local venues, so I've already hit a price ceiling there. I just keep buying lottery tickets!

wlewis wrote:


Yes I was being fescicious regarding the 1k ticket price. If you take the common response given to me that if people will pay a certain amount then it is worth it, and take it to a logical conclusion, ie: more expensive tickets, that the issue. Burt, with all due respect, experience does not have to equal me taking a side on the issue. I am just using a small amount of intelligence to speak on the subject. If only those people who have 'experienced the magic' can speak on it, there would be no questions raised. And that is not how it works. I do not have to experience a 400.00 bottle of scotch to have an opinion on it. I did not have to go and see Waters to speak that 600 beans is ridiculous. So let me back up the 1K outrageous quip and say 250-500 bucks a ticket. This could be a possibility. All I am trying to convey is just because a certain group of people can afford those prices, does not make it woth that amount. There comes a point in time where a product is priced out of the market. If for whatever reason an iphone had to cost 1500 bucks because of Apples burden rate does not justify that amount. Therefore if for whatever truthful reason tickets to see certain shows become so expensive, size of venue, cost of musicians, etc etc, they can be considered too high and not worth it even if 300 people buy them.

SunshineSue wrote:


I am certainly trying to leave the judgment and snarkiness out of it Sue. If I have verbally assulted anyone during this discussion I apologize.

SunshineSue wrote:


Agreed. Though I find it difficult to cross the street w/o judgement.

I don't know if any of the family helping the shows happen at the production level are reading this thread. However, it seems in opposition to the values of unity, oneness, or equality to have some people pay for a show where numerous attendees get in for free or under face value. Or more simply stated that one group should have to pick up the slack for another seems unfair, guess what, to that extent life is unfair and perhaps should be, in these times. The question of am I my brother's keeper has no bearing on me, I am. I think the price of tickets for Furthur shows, in general, has gotten a bit too high. I also enjoy the larger venues to keep the costs down, and love the intimacy of smaller venues, where tickets are often too expensive. I don't know the cost of tickets to Sweetwater, certainly these TXR tickets are not too burdensome IMHO. However that same price for Red Rocks or Broomfield seems unfair, and I'm still gonna go if I can.

To think an opinion is less valid because the opinion doesn't come from direct experience of the venue seems a bit narrow minded. And while I'm making friends, exaggeration doesn't help an argument. So, you're wrong, I'm right, is never the value of the discussion. The value is in the opinion, or facts, the value is in the experience, life. While I'd rather be at the show I sure have been enjoying these streams. Opinions may be like a-holes, though I think that is often an attack on an opinion, w/o giving the opinion its due consideration. People have a way of devaluing another that is an attractive trap. As long as our merit is based on an others strength, or weakness, we are truly out of balance. Our merit comes from integrity, differentiation, or perhaps Love. Our merit comes from more than our selves.

While we are all "equal" there is an inherent merit in respecting our elders that is often neglected, especially in "hip" circles. While we are "equal" there are inherent differences between men and women. That said, there are women more masculine than men, and visa-verse. Smarter is not the ultimate criteria, sensitivity is highly underrated, can you really be too sensitive? "Equal" in quotes because one making an agenda and one finding the agenda are not on the same page. One who cares not for his brother is not equal to one who cares. Yet, the potentials of each, are equal. Perhaps I am off topic, relativity is important to me and dragging ass is comical to see. Fan of non sequiturs, which only appear to have lack of meaning to the premiss, but may actually have bearing. If snarky, breathe, become free of snark, take self less seriously.

newyawker wrote:

Not at all, I think you posed an interesting academic question!

you can't possibly understand what you're missing if you've never been there. you wouldn't know if it was worth it. you have to experience it to say, well that was or was not worth it. otherwise, it's a bunch of assumptions. you would assume it's not worth it without giving a chance to see what might happen for you in that experience.

i didn't know if it was worth it until i went. did i think it was outrageously expensive oh yes. but, i took a chance to find out what it was all about.

Boy, you both have some dam good points. I must say I have enjoyed this and I think your both right!

wlewis wrote:


I am not sure I agree with your premise Burt. Does one have to experience something in order to give an opinion? Would a person have to commit a crime in order to give an opinion on it? Can I give an opinion on booting H in order to speak on the subject if I never have done it? My history of the band definatley qualifies me to give an honest opinion on whatever circumstance happens with them. For instance, if I said to you, Burt, since you never saw the GD, I would withold any opinion you have on any of their shows, you would tell me I am full of shit. At least I hope you would. If I believe such and such a show, which I never saw, is one of theire best, is not my opinion valid?

Now let me qualify my statement. I was never nor will ever be a rail hugger at a show. I did it a few times and after becomming too flat and bug eyed, I stopped. So I will admit I do have a predisposition against any sense of closeness to the actual musicians which relates to any positive result. Therefore I am not an intimacy head in the least. Yet, I am still able to visualize being in a room with 200 people listening to a show. It does not take a tremendous leap of imagination.

This is also a digression away from the discussion at hand. I still say with confidence that if $150.00 is valid to see Furthur, then I owe the band a ton of money when I consider the unbelievable shows I was fortunate to see in my lifetime.

you are veering away from what i said man. you don't know if it's worth it until you do it. once you've done it, you can conclude it was or was not worth it.

you can give all the opinions you want, but im an experience kind of person. i need to find out for myself, i don't dream up scenarios and tell myself how i would feel in a certain situation without finding out.
you can't simulate the experience of being there or imagine it, you don't know what kind of energy exchange is going ot take place or where your mind is going to take you in that moment.

as for your GD comment. i am not sitting here telling you how a GD show was. i don't know, and i wouldn't sit here and act like i did. i could certainly voice an opinion on the music itself, but that's not crazy because it's so readily available for listen.

if i was given two opinions on something, let's say a bass guitar. one dude has played the bass the other hasn't. the guy who played the bass said you definitely want to try this bass out. the guy who didn't, says no, that bass is no good, but he never played it. he has preconceived notions about said bass. something is telling him to not even try it, something in his head. something like a prior predisposition perhaps. maybe he thinks it's a low quality bass. but does he know how it's going to sound if he never played it? no, he doesn't. he thinks he does.

a good discussion but I think I gotta go with the point that to give a true opinion if the show is worth $150 your going to have to experience it...

you don't have to experience it to think the price is to high or that the band shouldn't charge that much just because of the 'way things always were' or whatever... but to give an opinion if the experience is worth $150 - how can you without experiencing it?

wlewis wrote:


Thank you for a well tempered tone and valid points.