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wharfrat71
Junior Boarder
Posts:72

Furthur -vs- Phil Lesh & Friends

#212647 1 year, 9 months ago
I know, it may be hard to score because of Phils' ever rotating lineup. But with any lineup, P&F seem to improvise a whole lot more than Furthur. Even the segues seem more interesting also. Isn't the heart of the jam (or the jam in general) what it's all about? Don't get me wrong, I LOVE FURTHUR! But Phil's group assemblies always seem to be on major fire!!!
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Equinox
Platinum Boarder
Posts:16709

Re: Furthur -vs- Phil Lesh & Friends

#212658 1 year, 9 months ago
Furthur, to me, is more about the overall journey, going from point A to point B, psycically speaking. Phil is more about the exploration, striking out towards parts unknown.
"Got any nails?"
"No!"
"Got any flies?"
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Dire Wolf
Platinum Boarder
Posts:1432
when the police knocked y'all...

Re: Furthur -vs- Phil Lesh & Friends

#212659 1 year, 9 months ago
being that it's all different it's nice to just hear anybody playing dead music well. its nice to know that as long as there are musicians dead tunes will never die, any kind of pigeonholing of the music always seems to lead down a negative path, so the more variety and interpretation the better. i can't wait to hear what kind of jams and good times people come up with from the foundation and framework the dead have so heartily established further down the road.
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ZenoMarx
Gold Boarder
Posts:1022
PLEASE be quiet when the band is playing. PLEASE.

Re: Furthur -vs- Phil Lesh & Friends

#212661 1 year, 9 months ago
PL&F - more exploration and freedom, but the constant stumbling around each other in an ever-revolving line-up isn't appealing to me in the least. a steady, constant line-up for 2-3 years is when you really see the greatest fruit. Or I had more time to write in the Stella thread:
"+1 on wanting PL&F back...but not with constantly rotating musicians. Phil works in 2-3 year cycles. He can pull the utmost out of them within that period, and then they plateau (or so it seems). I'd like to see a 5-year PL&F band, but it doesn't seem to work that way for how he operates and thinks. And it has NOTHING to do with my continued high opinion of Furthur. PL&F explores more and feels more free. One captain and no baggage (a term I know many will take offense to when applying it to Sunshine Becker and Jeff Pehrson. Just like when there was one drummer*, it is easier to turn the big ship on a dime with fewer folk, and though they might not seem like musician weight, I think their presence is felt on stage).

*I don't have a preference for single-drummer GD. I'm a big Mickey fan."

Still adore Furthur.
You aren't interesting or clever when you write or speak in the lyrics of others. Rather, what are YOUR words?
Last Edit: 1 year, 9 months ago by ZenoMarx.
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mtnhead
Junior Boarder
Posts:98

Re: Furthur -vs- Phil Lesh & Friends

#212691 1 year, 9 months ago
Jackie Green is way underrated. Having him in the Phil band automatically makes them the better band. Plus, Phil is a better musician than Bobby and thus attracts other better musicians. If Phil wasn't in Furthur they wouldn't be worth seeing at all.
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Griff
Expert Boarder
Posts:833
Don't you see........

Re: Furthur -vs- Phil Lesh & Friends

#212715 1 year, 9 months ago
Hmmmmmmmm..........interesting discussion. I love these admittedly.

So I cant say that I have seen much of PL&F over the years so cannot talk from a historical perspective. I did watch a bunch of vid from the recent shows. Great music no doubt with great musicians.

But is Phil the better musician then Bobby and attract better musicians??? Seems a bit fat fetched to me and I am not sure how one could even make that distinction. I am a musician myself, have been since I was 12, and don't think I could honestly clearly differentiate between one being better then the other. Just a few comments.

What I really found interesting in watching the vids was that it seemed a bit forced, or the roles weren't clearly "known". Obviously the result of the band members rotating through. So I did not sense that I was getting the "all" from the musicians, especially Jeff and John.

Here is my personal observation and would be interested to hear/see if people had a similar experience:

I thought that JK looked most comfortable and played with the most authority at NYE and the summer shows I saw at MCU and Bethel being next to Jeff and Sunshine/Jeff. It really worked. Then when he switched to the middle at RR, I sensed some uncomfortableness........especially at first. By the time the tour ended though in SB, it seemed like all was really gel'ing.

And when joined on stage at the Greek and SB Bowl, JK seemed to lose some of that authority. He seems like a really nice guy willing to defer, yet I want him to take control. He didn't seem to take control when Lucas and Jonathon joined him on stage.

So where I am going with all this is that JK did not seem comfortable with his role at times on the vid I saw and neither did Jeff, thus holding them back a bit. Resulting in Furthur being more fulfilling since all the players know where there stand and are able to play to their full potential!!
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ZenoMarx
Gold Boarder
Posts:1022
PLEASE be quiet when the band is playing. PLEASE.

Re: Furthur -vs- Phil Lesh & Friends

#212719 1 year, 9 months ago
I like Jackie Greene with Phil, but I've also seen him get overconfident and rambunctious to the point of being entirely disruptive. Maybe he's matured since 2007, and this wouldn't be the case again. His songs are also generally good, so that's another plus for him. And he doesn't look confused or outclassed musically like Chris Robinson often does, so I like that about him as well. When it is time to improvise, which is the main component of why I like this music, Greene can bring something worthwhile to the table. He may not be a top-level choice, but he's solidly competent.
You aren't interesting or clever when you write or speak in the lyrics of others. Rather, what are YOUR words?
Last Edit: 1 year, 9 months ago by ZenoMarx.
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ZenoMarx
Gold Boarder
Posts:1022
PLEASE be quiet when the band is playing. PLEASE.

Re: Furthur -vs- Phil Lesh & Friends

#212747 1 year, 9 months ago
Griff wrote:
So I cant say that I have seen much of PL&F over the years so cannot talk from a historical perspective. I did watch a bunch of vid from the recent shows. Great music no doubt with great musicians.

But is Phil the better musician then Bobby and attract better musicians??? Seems a bit fat fetched to me and I am not sure how one could even make that distinction.
This is about context. If you're into songwriters, you'll probably side with Bob being a better musician (though someone else has written most of his best lyrics). If you're into improvisation, you'll probably side with Phil. They both have unique visions of music, how to fill space, and how they react against other players. (listeners)! I don't think Bob is as consistent as Phil when in the improvisational arena, and I think Bob is less patient and quicker to move on. Some find Bob's brevity to be a good thing. I do not agree, but I can understand it. As for attracting better musicians, I don't find that so debatable. Phil has played with an awful lot of people (probably too many). I also don't find it necessarily debatable. Who cares?

Griff wrote:
What I really found interesting in watching the vids was that it seemed a bit forced, or the roles weren't clearly "known". Obviously the result of the band members rotating through. So I did not sense that I was getting the "all" from the musicians, especially Jeff and John.
This necessarily follows from a revolving door, so I cannot disagree with anything you've said here...except that Jeff, John, and Joe are likely to be just as comfortable in PL&F as they are in Furthur, unless they don't actually care to push improvisations. It's probably a lot more fun for Phil to play with different people every week than it is for the audience.

Griff wrote:
And when joined on stage at the Greek and SB Bowl, JK seemed to lose some of that authority. He seems like a really nice guy willing to defer, yet I want him to take control. He didn't seem to take control when Lucas and Jonathon joined him on stage.
There was a similar problem with Larry Campbell. Some of the guitar players Phil chooses simply are not aggressive and alpha enough. That's not on Phil or anyone else in the band. That falls squarely on them. Maybe it is a lack of confidence. Scofield is another cat who I wish would step forward and smoke everyone. Just not his personality to do so.
You aren't interesting or clever when you write or speak in the lyrics of others. Rather, what are YOUR words?
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bxorain
Senior Boarder
Posts:334

Re: Furthur -vs- Phil Lesh & Friends

#212777 1 year, 9 months ago
It's funny how we now live in a society where we judge everyone and everything to the scale of being perfect, admittingly doing so myself. Take sports for example, you can have the new QB on the block come in and inevitably there will be people who say, "sure he's good but he'll never be the next Joe Montana". Or music for example, "yeah, John's phenomenal but he'll never be Jerry". Why can't we just take in moments of watching human beings do talented things and enjoy them for exactly who they are? Not easy to do I know but I've tried to make a conscious decision to remind myself of this often. Peace
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ZenoMarx
Gold Boarder
Posts:1022
PLEASE be quiet when the band is playing. PLEASE.

Re: Furthur -vs- Phil Lesh & Friends

#212788 1 year, 9 months ago
bxorain wrote:
Why can't we just take in moments of watching human beings do talented things and enjoy them for exactly who they are? Not easy to do I know but I've tried to make a conscious decision to remind myself of this often.
Well, this is the conversation we're having. That's why. It's like going to a boxing match and asking, "Why can't they just get along?" Well, the situation is about differences, dissecting, and deconstruction/reconstruction.

Now, if people standing in the audience doing this ("Fucking guy thinks he's Jerry. He'll never be Jerry."), then I agree they should leave the baggage at the door if they truly want to enjoy here/now. After the fact is a whole different deal, and I don't see any harm in trying to understand our own beliefs, preferences, etc. Actually, seems like pretty darn healthy exercise to me. Yin/Yang is healthy. Balance. All in one or the other is not healthy.
You aren't interesting or clever when you write or speak in the lyrics of others. Rather, what are YOUR words?
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