tdog wrote:
Because very few people could afford even that. Guess how much a root canal costs? Over $1000. Guess how much a colonoscopy costs? Around $3K. A broken ankle? $2500-3000. West Nile virus hospitalization and cure? $100K (that's $100,000. I know this because someone I know caught it). And you don't know much about prescription drugs if you think the average person with any kind of common, everyday illness can afford them. You want to talk about a dead economy? If we all had to pay for everything short of cancer, we'd all have to save every penny just to prepare for standard illness and accident expenses. Of course, no one would save their money for that, so they wouldn't pay their bills at all or end up filing for bankruptcy.

Health care is #1 crippler of this economy. We need bigger bargaining power, less lobby influence, more agents in the field testing foods and holding factories to regulations (the FDA is a total scam because we don't have anyone out there enforcing it until a few people die of something), and all kinds of other things directly related to health care.

Is Romney all that far away from Obama when it comes to health care reform? Merely different terminology and applied party rhetoric?

tdog wrote:


idiot? really? i dont think he has any of our best interests influencing his policies and i would NEVER vote for him, but im pretty sure hes not an "idiot"
..but i do think Romney is a turd nugget, douchebag, fuck wad and a dickslap...ill add shit-tard too

my point is, why would you vote for one guy just to take a vote away from another? oh, yeah, and plus, your vote doesnt mean shit anyway. Ha! (unless you personally are in the electoral college, are you?) if you really believe your vote counts then you are one nut short of a full ball sack.

AcidTestGraduate wrote:
And you can go fuck yourself. see i used a period .wait 2 of them dick breath

StoneJackBaller wrote:


Ok, idiot may too strong a word for Obama but he's surely not as smart as his supporters argue that he is. He's actually quite dumb sounding away from a teleprompter. Did he earn those Ivy League degrees or was it affirmative action ? Dude is at most an incompetent fraud. Make of that what you will.

I'm voting for the smart guy who can do the job. Color me crazy but that's what I'm doing.

ZenoMarx wrote:


Why are costs so high for doctor visits and routine procedure and prescription drugs ? Could it be there's far too much overhead in the system and over treatment to avoid lawsuits on the part of doctors and hospitals ? We need all of that shit eliminated if we want to be serious about healthcare reform. Obamacare does none of that. It's a stupid law !

Does Romney have a better plan ? I have heard him talk of opening up insurance purchasing across state lines (not possible now or under Obamacare) to encourage competition on pricing. Is insurance competition the solution in and of itself ? No but that provision alone makes it far better than Obamacare. Add to that tort reform and now we're talking about a much better plan.

I think that if Obamacare is fully implemented we will have two healthcare systems. One for those who can pay cash to doctors who will only work for cash and one for everyone else with inadequate doctors that receive Obamacare/government salaries. We're already hearing doctors say they can't see Medicare patients because it doesn't cover costs to do business. Many doctors will simply not practice if they're not paid. Just my personal opinion of how things will shake out. Obama may think he can force doctors to work for government pay but this aint Cuba or Venezuela. At least not yet.

Tdog I told you before, here in Maine they allowed across state line insurance companies and our rates went up. We need to look to Canada where they spend half of what we do and have better health indicators then we do. Z is correct it will bankrupt the country. For profit health care is a scam....they will always give you extra tests, drugs, proceedures and hospitals are always at capacity. It is in there interest to overdiagnose...and the insurance companies have an interest to deny coverage. You can't fix these problems with more completion....it will only make it worse.

B-Rad wrote:


I didn't say that competition for insurance was the only answer. I believe that free market competition for all services works better than the government picking which side wins. Can you buy your car insurance from any insurance company and do you shop for the best price ? Same for homeowners insurance ? Why not healthcare insurance too ?

BTW, 'healthcare' is not the same thing as 'healthcare insurance'. I think the two get completely intertwined and confused by the talking heads in the media and the political class. We should concentrate on bringing the cost of 'healthcare' down and then deal with how to provide cheaper, better 'healthcare insurance' for those who can't afford it. I think we all agree on this Obamacare addresses the latter but not the former and that's why it needs to be repealed and replaced by something smarter and better and, yes, Romney/Ryan have some ideas on this.

The Obamacare law was legislated by only one political side forcing its will in Congress by arm twisting and deal making in order to get support and, therefore, doesn't have a single idea (tort reform, free market insurance, etc) from the other side. It's simply a shitty law as a result. If Obama is re-elected you'll get the full implementation of the law over the next several years. That in and of itself is a reason to vote the other side IMO.

What does Canada's healthcare system do to keep costs down ? I'm interested but don't know. Thanks.

It's all about the Supreme Court. Do you really want a couple more ultra conservative corporate justices sitting up there for the next 40 years. That could really really hurt us. Just give it some thought.

tdog wrote:


First of all Romney has zero change of getting rid of Obamacare. To do so would take a supermajority of republicans in the Senate and they would have to keep control of the house. It isn't going to happen this election...maybe in four years when enough Senators are up for election but by then people will see the benefits and there will likely be 40 million more people with healthcare. Good luck taking that away from them or getting elected saying you are going to take it. So it is here to stay and it will be fully implemented.

Could Obamacare be better: sure. I would argue that there is just as much in there to bring healthcare costs down as there are provisions to ensure everyone can get health insurance. Health care costs have already started to come down. The provision that gives preventitive care without co-pays will lead to huge reductions in health care costs because people will get the help they need before they end up in the ER. Also the health insurance requirements will bring down costs by having people pay for their own health care rather than the $2500 per household we currently spend to pay for people who don't have health insurance who show up at the ER. Everyone on the right acts like it is a new cost to pay for the uninsured but we all pay for them already, and Obamacare gets them to pay for some of it themselves. It also brought down Medicare costs by $716 billion and applied 25% that back to more benifits for medicare and the rest to cover more people which will bring down medicare costs by allowing people to not put off medical treatment till after they turn 65. There are a whole bunch of pilot projects to try and get costs down and there is the medical advisory board. Dispite what Romney/Lyan have been saying it can't actually do anything but make recomendations to congress on which proceedures are used unnecessarially and other ways to cut costs.

Actually the entire plan is based on repulican plans...from the Heritage foundation which has been promoting the same plan to Bob Dole's plan to mitt's own plan in Mass. To say it is a one sided plan is not really true. In fact it doesn't even contain a public option that most Dems wanted. The GOP did not vote for it because they were set against giving OBama a big win. They held their breath like little children despite the good the law will do for the American people and all the policies in it they had previously supported.

Canada gets rid of waste and abuse by regulating the healthcare system and it lowers insurance cost because there isn't any. Most of the waste in the system comes from the insurance side who spend often less than 60% on actual coverage and up to 40% on processing. All this waste is removed in government ran systems which is why Medicare, medicaid and the VA have lower rates of inflation than private insurance in the US and they spend at least 87% on actual medical care.

B-Rad wrote:
I'm not sure why, but this is often missed by the average mind. You don't go into fixing something as complicated and entrenched as health care without making mistakes, needing to tweak ideas, etc. "It doesn't do this." "It doesn't do that." Wake up. Grow up. Get real. Mistakes will be made. Things will be missed. There will be casualties. Change always includes the element of casualties. ALWAYS. The pendulum is going to have to rock back and forth several times before a new system gets in tune with most of the old system and changes the course of all things.

It's either whiny rhetoric, ignorant rhetoric, or irresponsible rhetoric to think the first plan is going to be the answer to all things. But we do indeed need to walk through that door. RIGHT NOW.

ZenoMarx wrote:


It's hopeless. Nobody listens. It's all a game to most, "average minds".

It's incredibly easy to see how societies fail these days.

B-Rad, no offense but you're the ultimate parrot for the democrat party talking points.

Re: Obamacare: polls clearly show that Americans don't want a public option (government controlled healthcare) or Obamacare as currently written. They want it repealed ! Does this matter to you ? Or, is it your attitude that anyone who disagrees with it can go to hell ?

What I'm suggesting with regard to Obamacare or any national healthcare system or any national policy in general is that it should be argued, discussed, analyzed before it's implemented into a law that affects every one of us. Obamacare was forced upon us by one side of the political equation that wanted to make history. Precisely how it differs from RomneyCare is that it affect every one of us permanently. The law will never be accepted because we don't trust how it was made and why should we ? The political shenanigans that went on to get it passed into law don't bother you ? They should.

I'll simply ask you this, do you want to live in a divided America ? You aren't going to convert people who disagree with you by using force. How about a thoughtful discussion and finding some common ground for a change ? It's possible but not with the current crop of politicians running things. I see no evidence that Obama is willing to give up his ideology to find common ground with any conservative democrat let alone a "republican". Irresponsible and pathetic. Dude needs to go.