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Ossumpei
Platinum Boarder
Posts:2753

Re: Spinners

#12437 3 years, 5 months ago
I guess when I tried it I wasn't looking for a meditative experience.

These answers are pretty deep. I was thinking it was more of a balance thing, where you get dizzy and the brain works to counteract it. Something a little more simple.
Let us all look kindly on our neighbor.
PMoondancer
Platinum Boarder
Posts:1837

Re: Spinners

#12462 3 years, 5 months ago
Well, yes, it is simple. Do it again in a good space and let go of your ego. Don't try, just be. You'll get it.
Loonyj
Junior Boarder
Posts:63

Re: Spinners

#12471 3 years, 5 months ago
Amen, close your eyes and be free!

You don't need to be F'd up, it's got it's own inner peace.
Lizzy Lightning is one o fthe most voracious I know of and that lady is mostly stone cold sobber.

If you don't know your missing, but you can't be front row and do it. It's about connection to your innerself and cosmos.
My favorite show, is the next one!
www.phumes.com
The following user(s) said Thank You: PMoondancer
skyties
Junior Boarder
Posts:104

Re: Spinners

#12475 3 years, 5 months ago
Why did I think this was about the "spinners" that used to tour with the Dead in the 80's.
spinneresque108
Junior Boarder
Posts:71

Re: Spinners

#12484 3 years, 5 months ago
It feels kind of like flying

It is habit forming.

It is a kind of meditiation.

It requires surrender.

I don't think the dervishes would be appalled by Dead shows, but their dance is very structured whereas ours is improvisational.

I recommend The Essential Rumi and learning about the story of he and Shams of Tabriz. This was a great beginning for me.
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PMoondancer
Platinum Boarder
Posts:1837

Re: Spinners

#12492 3 years, 5 months ago
skyties, they are a big part of this
spinneresque108
Junior Boarder
Posts:71

Re: Spinners

#12500 3 years, 5 months ago
A discussion about spinning that is apart from the former family from the 80's would be refreshing. There are many many many many MANY spinners who have never heard of them. That whole history feels kind of embarrassing.... I know many of them personally and they are my friends, but all Deadhead spinners in the world should not have to be affected by their bad 'baggage.'
The following user(s) said Thank You: skyties, Bebop
PMoondancer
Platinum Boarder
Posts:1837

Re: Spinners

#12579 3 years, 5 months ago
Its a big story, with a cast of characters spinning time...
lostsailor
Senior Boarder
Posts:552

Re: Spinners

#12592 3 years, 5 months ago
PMoondancer wrote:
Dear lostsalior,

What is your pre-Socratic understanding of Apollo's and Dionysus's characteristics?


I'm at work and doing this between my boss' door closing This is something that I've been reading abotu and contemplating for 10 years now. I did a presentation at a deadhead academic conference on the topic.

Really my understanding kind of starts with socrates' time, and anyways we can't go much farther back than socrates all that much, as far as the greeks conception of Dionysos. I'd have to double check the books at home on the topic before venturing very far here, but I would add a few things: most of the roman/greek gods, it is believed, started out as vegetative gods. God of the harvest being just one, and with time their personalities became more complex. Dionysos was originally a simple vegetative god. He became the god of wine and I assume people would get drunk to commune with him. And since the mysteries of the socratic time were secret (Thyrascian? I am spacing the name of the mystery right now- there are two) we don't really know much. But we do know that they would go into a dark chamber/temple, light fires, beat drums and take wine infused with mind altering substanvces, like opium laced fermented wine (Read the odyssy- several references about having to dilute the wine- wine can be only fermented to about 15% alcohol. They were watering down opiates, not alcohol). there are french caves dating 5,000 years that are similar. some have argued the french cave paintings were part of religious ceremonies. THey would burn marijuana plants whole in the cave and hold their ceremonies.

secondly, Mckenna has a wonderful book, food of the gods, where he goes all the way back to homo sapiens being hunter/gatrherers, following herds of wild animals across grass plains. Assuming his theory is correct, we were ingesting magic mushrooms long before religion came about. I tried to apply that to evolutionary theory- was tripping a benefit??? , but professor Boyle at UCLA (he has a college text book titled "human evolution" and is an expert on evolution) kind of killed it- evolution is a blind tinkerer he said, so drugs won't have had an effect. But I still think the idea just needs to be tweaked. If language had an effect on our evoluton, and they certainly think it did, then a drug that creates the "I" in the ego def. could have had a chance. Assuming McKenna is right- I certainly think our need to find a place in the cosmos was done in a dionysian way, versus apollonian method of meditative. We can certainly see this in the Yanomamo- the Brazalian tribes who cultivated (and in some respects still do!,multiple forms of psychedilic plants and would trip out every night.

Thirdly the shamans. Deadheads are not shamans, though. Let's be clear about that. But the concept sure does play a similar role- their initiation rites certainly were very diionysian- they would starve themselves, take powerful drugs and dissolve themselves "to the bone". During the rite of initiation, they would meld back together into a new form- the holy shaman- and be a cleaner, holy form of their prior selves. But they would use drugs to trip out for visions.

Lastly of course is the 10,000 year old tradition of the hindu soma cult. I was just rereading an article by the Wasson couple the other night abotu their time down in Mexico- they found that soma was the mushroom [I can't mremember the name of the shroom- it's the one that is bright red with white spots... ]. The priests would consume the mushroom, and the drug would metabolize in their urine, so the followers drank their shroom'd pee. But I think that cult was or could be dionysian as well. Like the Grateful Dead's growing popularity, the soma cult became way too popular and the Wassons believed that the priests intentionally blotted out what soma's true identity was so only the select few would know. THey rediscovered it I think in the 1940s. For centuries people had no idea, or had some pretty wrong idea (like a certain woody branch...) Too many were into it and the priests probably saw sacrilege and mass use as bad for the gods. Of course, Teneonatl [spelling] which is a 2,000 year old Mayan mushroom cult (and probably dionysian) is probably not predating socrates but in the new world and seperated by oceans.

Back to the Mayan mushroom cult: they beleive we hippies used it sacriligiously and they stopped using it
spinneresque108
Junior Boarder
Posts:71

Re: Spinners

#12643 3 years, 5 months ago
Lost sailor, appreciate your insights....

Western academics by and large have no clue about Eastern and especially Hindu traditions, religions, languages and/or texts. Universities myopically focus on Western culture and writings, this may be why you sound a bit stuck on the Greeks and/or Romans, which is kind of a drag because that is some of the most boring religion in the world right there.This Westernized focus (indoctrination?) is part of the academic world here and most professors will agree.

Hinduism is from India, not Mexico. As an American who has travelled extensively, I'm generally embarrassed about how clueless and in the dark we are about the rest of the world, this includes Vedic culture in India. We are geographically impaired, it's like a (not-funny) joke. I just lived there for 11 years (India) and I was and still am quite clueless... but I've learned enough to believe that their traditions are far older than any of ours, and the idea that they 'took' anything from us is ludicrous. It's actually the other way around.

Your info about "the hindu soma cult" seems at least partially incorrect. The mushroom you are referring to sounds just like amanita muscaria which is not the soma that is referred to in Vedic texts. What you describe is also how people ingest amanita (though I don't recommend it). Soma as it is known in India is completely different.... but I don't know much about the Mayans myself.

"We were ingesting long before religion came out?" No way. Religion is as old as man, maybe just not religion as we think of it.

I would not agree with the generalized statement that Deadheads are not shamans.

Please don't be offended by my reply LS, I'm not trying to attack you or anything. Your words reminded me so much of my philosophy major days, I just wanted to share a bit about what I've learned since then.
Last Edit: 3 years, 5 months ago by spinneresque108.
deadforlife
Junior Boarder
Posts:22

Re: Spinners

#12644 3 years, 5 months ago
Deadhead4Obama wrote:
Anyone in the Pgh area thats been to a show ahs HAD to have seen Mike French (or as I call him 'Lava Lamp' man) in action. He is probably one of the best spinners I've ever seen. At the one theCAUSE show, he was dancing AROUND the corner of a table because he didnt ahve enough space. Im saying, literlly, AROUND it. I have no idea how the many didn't hurt himself, but he didn't touch it ONCE despite coming oh so close.

And, in my personal experience, I liek to dance. I spin at times, but I get too dizzy and don't enjoy it. I'm already in a 'altered state' and dont' wana fall over, so yea... i do my own little dance, but it certainly isn't one that involves spinners. Though I lvoe spinners, specialyl at outdoor shows.


FWIW---he is not a spinner. His brand of dancing is truly something unique. I have myself dubbed it "gumby dancing" but it's much different from the spinners....he almost never twirls. I will say that it is so unique that I once read a review of another local band's show where the author sited "a man who'd obviously had too much to drink too fast" up dancing as soon as the music started and clearly attributed this to being drunk. Fact is, he never drank at the time. I tried to write to this author to point out her incorrect assumption but couldn't get in contact with her. funny how some people just assume that because someone dances in ways they've perhaps never really seen, that the person has to be hammered.

Oh, and thank god you (DHFO) don't do that as it would not be pretty. It would however make me laugh.
living the dream
Ossumpei
Platinum Boarder
Posts:2753

Re: Spinners

#12660 3 years, 5 months ago
I never dreamed there was so much to it.
Let us all look kindly on our neighbor.
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